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He embodies a million contradictions, a human hero rather than a perfect one.
Or I had been supposed to read it, which means I probably read about a third of it.
But that was about it.
So once you got the part, did you go on a binge?I did.
I read a bunch of his autobiographies.
I readDavid Blights biography, which is, I think, the most recent of them.
And then, obviously, McBrides own words.
The character, in terms of how I would play him, is right there in the novel.
But I did read a lot of Douglass.
Whatisntin the novel is hisFourth of July speech[What to the Slave is the Fourth of July?
], which I was being asked to perform.
Im not generally big on research.
[ForHamilton] biographer Ron Chernow was there with us in rehearsals.
So I could just turn to him and be like, Hey, would Thomas Jefferson do this?
And if he said yes, then I would do it.
Im adapting this for television.
Frederick Douglass will be in two episodes.
One of them ishisepisode.
Hes like, Dont answer now.
Read the book, because its a particular take on Frederick Douglass.
And when I went home, I started reading the book and I could not put it down.
I read it faster than ever.
Im a very slow reader.
I think I read that book in two days and called him back.
Its a wild ride.Oh my God.
Its so much fun.
That dude [McBride] is a force of nature.
How aboutDeacon King Kong?
It broke my brain.
[Laughs] Yeah.
Its not on my vision board.
But Ive been asked to play Douglass before.
Ive said no every time, for plays or for other movies.
Im not really interested in the hero worship that we normally do with our biographies.
I dont think its useful.
I think dehumanizing people like that makes it very difficult to appreciate how amazing they are.
And so then to read this portrayal …
The brilliant trick that McBride did was framing everything through Onions eyes.
Its a cross-dressing slave boy, which allows so much to be ridiculous!
Of course hes ridiculous.
That feels honest to me.
This is not a flattering portrait of his personality by any means.
Hes really full of himself.
Like that moment where he sort of stops mid-conversation and starts furiously writing down everything hes saying.
Its one that I deal with.
Its actually a thing that I understand.
It makes the import and honesty of some of his work even more impressive.
Hes the most photographed human being of that time.
More people knew what Frederick Douglass looked like than anybody else in the world.
They were shipping his books all over the world to get to promote abolition.
So Im going to reimagine this story from my childhood, like this.Hes very intentional about it.
And I think thats amazing, because his world is moving so fast.
It all is exhausting to him.
Theres a line in the novel about how Douglasss hands start wandering down Onions body.
Onion says toward my mechanicals.
I assume there was a point where they were like, We cant come back from this.
There are no recordings of him.
Did you feel like,I kind of have to make Frederick Douglass sexy?Yeah.
I mean, me and Darnell Martin, who directed that episode, talked about that a lot.
He was a rock star.
And so that was really important for her to get in there.
You know, he used everything in the toolbox.
He was raising money to free the slaves, and that was part of it.
And he would speak at these ladies socialite events.
And if its going to make people give money …
That hair is impressive.
How much of that is yours?Oh, its all my hair.
We just combed it out.
This would have actually been a younger Douglass.
And it fortunately worked out, because I couldnt cut anything.
That dinner-table scene is a lot.
Its these two forces who are sort of crashing into one another.
What can you tell me about filming that scene?
Was any of it improvised?With Ethan and with Darnell, theres always room for some improvisation.
That scene had a lot of moving parts.
Its actually hard to shoot a dinner scene where everyones sitting around a big table.
The coverage is tricky.
And timing everything for when the wait staff comes through and everything to pick up the dishes.
So maybe less improv in that scene than most.
And hes so good.
Working with him, theres no rules.
Because hes going to do anything, it gives you permission to do anything.
He is not worried about it.
He is going to live in this moment.
And whatever you need, theres no way you could throw that guy.
You dont get to do that often in TV.
TV is often about making things smaller.
I mean, that is just so funny.
Its almost all improvised.
That kid, Joshua [Caleb Johnson], is really something else.
The drawing-room seduction scene, we shot that straight through.
Thats a 15-page scene.
And he was right there with me the whole time.
That kids going to be a big, big deal.
Its hard to do quiet and make an impact, but he does.
Thats huge.Its a lot.
If it had been six months later, he couldnt have done it.
I had John Brown right there for the first time.
Theres never been a time in my life where that wasnt true.
But we started writing that in 2009.
AboutSnowpiercer,people said the same thing: Its so prescient.
You couldnt have possibly known, but isnt that amazing?
Well, yeah, but climate change was [already] a fucking thing.
Its always been a thing.
What work do we need to do?
Its a really good barometer.
This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.
