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It is a strange experience to meet your mirror-image self.
I realize, that when you dont like your reality and who does like their reality when theyre 15?
the impulse is to create an imaginary world away, he says.
We were all working on parallel lines at different times.
What is reverse Anglophilia?
I dont know.Its so funny, there isnt even a word, is there?
Everybody else has one because its so curious, you have to be precise.
Americas soft power was so pervasive, it justwas.
You didnt even need a word for it.
Its like earth, air, fire, water.
The first half of the book goes into great detail aboutjust how crappy Britain in the 80s was.
Exactly.Theres two strands to my love of America.
The first was rooted in my family story.
Being a Jewish kid in Liverpool, you create family myths to help you survive.
The myth of our family was that of my great-grandfather.
He left Russia, like millions of Jews, and the story is he was headed for Chicago.
They got off when the boat refueled at the wrong stop, and made pennies instead of millions.
And obviously, Liverpool, England, itself, postwar, was in a dark and challenged place.
The United States, through soft power, appeared as a beacon of courage, tenacity, and wonder.
For me, it was the reverse.
Then that moment got further and further away.
It was just a constant cycle of high hopes, Were going to win it this time, lads.
And of course, we crapped our pants in front of the world.
As a nation, were almost conditioned to like that.Dont take away our losing.
All of those bands became big, but then England turned on them and told them they were wankers.
Were still not truly comfortable with success.
The very first line of your book says, I was raised on American soft power.
Is there anything Americans dont quite perceive about how our image is reflected abroad?
We knowMiami Vice, the Super Bowl Shuffle, is not the real America.
The real America has challenges just like everywhere else.
But that did not make them unreal to me as deceptions.
I think the difference is, to me, they were so powerful.
All of them were like sirens calling me to move onto the rocks.
They were so un-bloody-believably real.
Thats the driving question of the book.
Experiencing the Oath of Allegiance, in that company, with that energy …
It was exactly the same when I voted.
I felt the same joyous, wonderful energy, in that moment, of the right to vote.
Amid those two things, there was the worlds reaction, the parties around the world.
Everybody recognizes, Yes, America, like any country, is not perfect.
But the world is a better place when you could dream about America.
Thats ultimately the last spine of the book, and my absolute belief.
You often speak about yourself on the podcast as a miserable pessimist.
I do think, in writing this book, I had thought myself as quite a dark human being.
Even when you run away from something, which I did from England, it is of you.
I do stamp it out, but I realize there is an Englishness that is inside of me still.
I am surprised, yes, when I read it.
Its as surprising as looking in the mirror and seeing myself with a full head of hair.
But when happiness comes, which it does, even glimmers of happiness, youve got to savor them.
Make memories with them and dance as if you were at your own kids wedding.
Im curious, is there an American influence on Britain that has been positive?Absolutely.
God, the first one that comes to mind is Tracy Chapman.
The salve to every wound.
She was obscure then, though I already loved her.
Stevie Wonders keyboards malfunctioned just before he was meant to go on as the headliner.
The organizers just flung out Tracy Chapman because she didnt need any electronic anything.
Throw up that acoustic person again.
It was a bit like throwing out a poor gladiator unarmed to a lion.
This was Wembley at night, 82,000 drunk English people.
She was nervous as hell.
The English fans started to boo.
They started a chant: We want Stevie.
Within a minute, she turned Wembley from poised for a beer brawl into an intimate, silent room.
It was the most remarkable thing ever.
Fast Car was then audible in England for the entire summer.
The message was, Take control of your own life.
Do not miss that moment.
Get out while you’ve got the option to.
And that is a message that came from America.
If sirens sang to us, they couldnt have sang more beautifully than that.
So I guess I write as if Ive got my jaws wired together.
I am so blessed to have come from Liverpool.
It is a city of blaggers and romantics and storytellers.
A lot of Liverpudlians joke that its the capital of Ireland, and theres a massive oral tradition.
Theres more comedians that come out of Liverpool than any city in England.
A lot of writers.
I dont like to talk about myself.
English football then was not what it is now.
The fans largely went to fight each other.
They wanted the taste of their own blood in their mouth.
It was very tribal, very parochial.
When I saw American football for the first time, it was thrilling.
The year we started watching, the New Orleans Saints were terrible.
Instead, they called themselves the New Orleans Aints and put paper bags over their heads.
So the thing I would import from America is that sense of sports as love.
Finding joy in winningandlosing.
I mean, God, everything in life feels better with good pizza.
What about vice versa?
Ive got my tea bags.
Ive got my sticky toffee pudding.
Ive got a fridge full of kippers and haddock.
Everything now is so accessible.
Not even something more intangible?I do think about the Blitz spirit, the grind and tenacity.
But having lived through New York during COVID, no one can surpass the spirit of this city.
But at the same time, I knew the city around me was crackling.
It was a very incongruent, hard time psychologically for every New Yorker.
The remnant of the class system still held, and there werent that many options.
One of the joys about America is, you have so many incredible options.
Who do you want to be?
What do you want to be?
In England it was: probably Liverpool.
If youre bold, and you really want to adventure, maybe Manchester.
For the truly fearless, youd move to London, but then youd probably move back.
All I knew is I didnt want it.
Its not even a qualm.
Its not a Sophies choice.
Its the opposite of a Sophies choice; its Rogers choice.
This interview has been edited and condensed.
