The veteran music exec on trying to make the industrys gatekeeping obsolete.
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The pathways to success have shifted.
His excitement about the future is infectious, though I cant help feeling as though well eventually bungle it.
Over the last 20 years youve worked at BET, MTV, Revolt, Spotify, and now YouTube.
In that span of time, Black music has pushed its way to the forefront of American pop culture.
Before, [success] was dependent upon gatekeepers, especially at radio stations.
Now its all measurable.
They cant deny it.
I dont know if you remember this guy, Thomas Friedman, from the New YorkTimes.
He wrote the bookThe World is Flat: A Brief History of the 21st Century.
This was in the 2000s.
The decade between 2000 and 2010 was a decade of disruption, from mixtapes to ringtones to the blogosphere.
YouTube was born in that decade; social media emerged in that decade.
Anyone could upload their music videos, lyric videos, visualizers, and behind-the-scenes content.
They can tell their story in short form or long form.
you’ve got the option to dig deep.
From a Black music perspective, it has all happened on YouTube.
We use new tech to repeat old patterns of behavior.
All these new dance challenges and stuff … Im 45 years old.
Ive seen dances come and go so many millions of times.
Ive seen this movie 30, 40 times.
I can memorize the timing.
The thing is: I dont know how we break those patterns.
Thats a question for a psychologist.
Its good to see YouTube putting its money where its mouth is.
What was the genesis of the #YouTubeBlackVoices artist class?
Were not overlooking the nuance of the Black experience.
Were talking about practicing diversity even within the Black community.
That said, I wish youd included a few Americana artists.
But we do haveJoy Oladokun, whos like country.
Heres the deal: This is a long-term thing.
So anything we missed in one cohort, we will pay attention to in the next cohort.
Because its about that shot.
Its about the opportunity.
Whats the disconnect?I dont think theres a disconnect.
Ill give you an example.
But do you remember Kardinal Offishall?
Choclair, K-os, the old-timers?
These people knocked the barriers down and helped with delineation and absorbed the learning costs.
And the next generation really benefits from those learnings.
This is a movement.
Movements have different places in the graph.
I was born in 1975, and I wanted to rap.
I lived in Zimbabwe all my teenage years.
I wasnt in L.A. or New York or Atlanta where you had access.
They didnt have critical radio markets.
You didnt have access to A&Rs to send demo tapes.
There was no access to magazine editors, to [The Sources] Unsigned Hype.
B Tuma B gave up that dream.
I was like,Fuck that shit.
If I was born in 1995, I [couldve eventually] use[d] YouTube.
Id go make visuals.
Id build an audience.
Id have a whole world.
Were making Black history right now, through globalization.
The ancestors are seeing their descendants reunite through music and technology.
So when you talk about the connect, its a timing thing.
These things take time.
I agree that tastes are really starting to open up.
I was listening toKelly Rowlands new EPlast night.
She had Afrobeat samples and urbano beats mixed with more traditional American R&B sounds.
Those songs wouldnt live on the same tape even ten years ago.
[Michelle Williams] had the song, When Jesus say yes, nobody can say no.
[2014s Say Yes featuring Beyonce and Kelly Rowland].
Thats a Nigerian gospel song.
Harmony Samuels, a Nigerian, produced that.
You see what Im saying?
This stuff has been happening.
But now, its the youth that are connecting.
Careers arent reliant on gatekeeping.
So thats another part of technology, that direct, artist-to-artist or artist-to-fan connection.
It doesnt depend on whether Paul Simon likes your music or not.
I saw a few Sundance films in bed last month.
IRL is going to come back.
There are some places where IRL events didnt even stop.
I wonder whether youre aware of the criticisms of RapCaviar?
Some people feel like the playlist economy is just a replication of radio.
Is this new initiative an attempt to address that?Yeah, I cant comment on that.
I think I signed something somewhere.
How would I get on your radar?
Or is that even something an artist should be interested in?Build an audience.
Theres no shortcut anymore.
The traffic jam is just much more packed and cluttered.
Well get to you.
If you build your audience, and you have enough engagement, well find you.
I just dont know how easy or fair it is anymore.Its not easy.
Theres kind of a luck element.Its not luck.
How do you curate that and break out from everyone else?
Even before speaking to you, I was like,Just be you.
No one can be you better than you.And then your truth will come out.
Itll come out your mouth.
Itll come out in your actions.
The artists that I believe do that in their music and even their digital strategy.
Its not enough to just work hard.
When I spoke in Australia, I told the people, Working hard is not enough for success.
You have to work smart, and you have to work hard.
Working hard means being artful, unique, and original.
That rigor connects; its transformational.
A person playing your song or watching the video, they feel when youre working on that level.
But not everybodys going to get it, and not at the same time.
Thats why the whole timing thing that we were talking about earlier is so important.
Its a process, and there are going to be people who will make sacrifices on behalf of others.
And there are some people who will continue things.
Its a big part of how YouTube adapts.
The waves come, and we surf.
Thats all we do.
I think that were on two different sides of the business.
You have to have faith and trust in the advancement of tech and the goodness of that.
But as a critic, I have to have healthy suspicion.
Youre more optimistic about this stuff by nature of what youre working on.
Ive been getting paid for this for 24 years now.
On the contrary, I observe patterns, and I see similarities to the past.
I see playlists with formats that resemble radio.
I see very specific kinds of artists topping the charts with very specific sounds.
The pie is getting bigger.
The barriers are being removed.
I feel theres just more slices being carved out of the same pie, i.e.
less pie for everyone.I didnt think what has happened so far was going to happen in my lifetime.
So thats why Im so optimistic.
I can respect that.
This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.
