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Tackling all those issues in a half-hour sitcom is a tall order.
This interview has been edited and condensed.
Sierra, when you were growing up, Im sure you watched a lot of television and movies.
It was this huge thing that the British Museum put on.
Shes a Navajo tapestry weaver.
Shes sort of the LeBron James of Navajo weaving.
When she was on her come-up, she demonstrated at the British Museum.
My brother had just been born and we all lived up there for a couple of months.
We were invited to be in this movie calledRevolution, which was an Al Pacino movie.
I remember just thinking, Well, this is weird.
I kind of always knew that the media was different from the reality that I grew up in.
But I loved television so much and I really saw myself in all of these characters.
I rememberTheDick Van Dyke Showand seeing Rosemary, and just being like, thats my vibe.
Thats probably who Ill end up being.
In terms of representation, were not even in history books.
So I mean, TV is almost the least of my concerns right now.
There are so many places where Native people have been erased that that was always apparent.
I was always as a kid expected to educate people about my existence and my culture.
When I was 7, my dads zipping up my coat being like, Whats today?
And Im like, Its the day we celebrate Columbus, and he was a murderer.
It was just this constant part of my life.
How did the idea forRutherford Fallscome about?
Mike Schur:Well, this is sort of a two-part question, if I can jump in.
One day we decided to actually do it.
We ran into each other on the Universal lot and were like, Lets sit down and start thinking.
So thats when we were like, Okay, we need some help here.
Sierra had worked onBrooklyn Nine-Ninefor a season and she had coincidentally developed a show with Ed.
STO:At the time I had been working on a show calledSuperstore.
I had a three-year contract and I decided to take a break and had a baby.
Id worked in television as a writer, at that point, for almost ten years.
I was really wanting to write something from a Native perspective, something that was personal.
I loved working with both of them.
Tell me more about working at the National Museum of the American Indian.
STO:It was life-changing.
The museum had just opened when I started as an intern.
But the National Museum of the American Indian represents Indigenous people throughout the Western hemisphere.
I loved the job, but it slowly became a government job, unfortunately.
So thats sort of why I left.
STO:I know, I know, its your favorite story.
Were like, What?
Why would the film department need to come down and help?
We had no idea what they were talking about.
Finally one of the docents was like, ItsTwilight.
And I was like, What?
Because I had only been watching like, Indigenous Brazilian documentaries.
I was in my little space.
She was like, Oh, Ill just put that in.
That flick of a pen completely affected not only our museum but that actual nation.
There were tour buses that showed up and all kinds ofcrazy, awful stuff that happened there.
It was very apparent to us the impact that movies have on non-Native peoples awareness of Native people.
That goes back to what you were saying before about erasure.
When theres erasure of a culture, then whatever people see first is what they decide that culture is.
If itsTwilight, then all of a sudden that explains all Native life, which is ridiculous.
STO:I remember when I was a kid and I would say grace before I eat.
And I was like, Yeah, this is a danish, but … maybe?
Its crazy, peoples assumptions.
But it has a real negative impact.
Thats why I think we were so excited to just show Native people as human beings.
You have five Native writers on the staff ofRutherford Falls.
How did you go about finding those writers?
In the past, whenever someone would say, Why dont you have a more diverse writers room?
When you are in a writers room for ten years, youre always clocking how people staffed.
Then, we just went out to Indian country.
So we reached out to a lot of them.
I was looking for writers and had this database going, and I was always laughing on Instagram.
My husband was like, Why are you laughing?
And I was like, Bobby just posted this thing.
And he goes, You should reach out to him because he makes you laugh once a day.
We met with many more Native writers than we staffed.
There were so many.
You hear, Oh, there arent that many out there, but there really are.
So that was also really nice.
We have this list now that we can give to people.
STO:All of the time that was saved like, it was a shorthand that we all had.
STO:[Laughs.]
STO:After the seventh, Are you sure?
I feel like thats when it started to really cook.
In seriousness though, was there ever any awkwardness in the room?
STO:In a comedy room, youre always teasing people for different things, right?
You always hear in writers rooms, Everyone should be free to say what they want to say.
But in our room, everybody got to say what they wanted to say.
Was it tricky to write the Nathan character and make him likable while still highlighting how oblivious he is?
MS:Yeah, that was very tricky.
We talked endlessly about it.
Part of the work that we did was designing what the actual narrative is that he has swallowed whole.
Its hard to do that, frankly, and make the person likable and not just a willful ignoramus.
He takes pride in the idea that his family are the good ones.
The way that you know hes good-hearted is that he doesnt stop looking, he doesnt stop searching.
We are uniquely terrible at grappling with history.
We want to think of ourselves as the people who beat Hitler, and thats fine.
We should take some pride in the fact that we helped to beat Hitler.
So that was a big deal for us.
There are stereotypes that Native people are exhausted by dealing with that white people arent even aware exist.
Americans really love a clean narrative.
They love a white half, black half.
And thats just not how it works.
What was the conversation around that scene in the writers room?
That was very personal.
We would work at these luxury hotels in Tucson.
My mom would demonstrate her artwork and I would sell jewelry.
I was really, really good at it.
The whole summer, I was just like, Im going to figure this out.
At the end of the night when I was counting my money, there was no $20.
It was only $5 or something.
I remember being like, I sold that drum.
And he was like, No, I sold that drum.
You didnt do anything.
It wasnt about the money.
It was about the credit.
Anyway, my mom never worked for him again.
She was just like a plague on his house, and we never went back.
Hed probably be a criminal, and he wouldnt have had a family.
He wouldnt have had a real calling to help his people in the way that he thinks is best.
Hes just as ignorant as I think other people who are written off as ignorant would be.
Because of his station, you would assume hes very woke and very aware.
This stuff is so messy.
Sitting in that mess a little bit, I think would be beneficial.
Because some of us have to all the time.
The words out of my mouth were going to be, Wait until the cavalry arrives.
And I was like, Thats probably racist, right?
Yeah, thats racist.
That moment was very illuminating for me.
that are just not okay.
You cant tell me I cant say that anymore because Ive always said it.
And its like, Well, it sucks, though.
So stop saying it.
Thats not a good way to live, man.
STO:I personally think its that we dont want to live in discomfort.
Out of curiosity, I was wondering if either of you have watchedExterminate All the Brutes?
MS:I havent.
Ive been told to by like a hundred people.
In very different ways, both of these shows are directly talking about colonization.
Do you feel like theres more of an opening for that now?
MS:I think so.
STO:Yeah, I hope so.
MS:Theyre extremely fraught, but like, whats the alternative?
Thats what weve been doing, and it doesnt seem to have worked.
STO:We are dealing with huge swaths of change, and thats always going to be messy.
Its always been messy.
And its always going to be.
