Superlatives
A Vulture series in which artists judge the best and worst of their own careers.
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It is a crime that they only won once.
This week, Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis releaseJam & Lewis Vol.
1, their first album as artists.
Its also an undertaking first hatched 35 years ago when work wrapped onJanets blockbusterControlalbum.
Below, youll find a few stories about their friends and the history of a genre.
He came up to Minneapolis, and we played what we had for Janet.
All of those songs were done.
We said, Were good, right?
What are you talking about, one more?
So we go to grab a bite to eat, and Terry puts a cassette in.
John, listen to this.
This is our stuff from our album.
It was just tracks.
The third track came on, and he loved it.
He was like, This is the one I need for Janet.
Were like, What are you talking about, man?
Thats for our album.
He said, No, no, no.
I need this for Janet.
Play it for her and, if she likes it, give it to her.
John was very convincing.
The next day, we went to the studio and put the track on.
We didnt tell them we were putting it on.
We just watched her.
Shes putting her head down.
Shes grooving to it.
She comes to the door and gets … We always call it the ugly face.
When something is really funky, she gets the ugly face and she points at us.
When the song goes off, she goes, Whos that for?
We said, You, if you want it.
That song became What Have You Done For Me Lately.
Her album was already done, but that became the first single, as John wished.
It started her career and ended ours, or at least our album at that point.
Really, she took two songs from our album.
We went in and finally said, Were going to start keeping songs for ourselves.
T [Lewis] was the thing that finally put us on the track to do it.
We put a wishlist together, and Babyface was one of the people on the top of it.
We started doing that record and just continued on and that was how it all came together.
Wed been in L.A., driving down Hollywood Boulevard or whatever.
The ladies of the evening were out.
These girls came up to the car saying, Who yall?
What do you guys sing?
We said, Get It Up.
Oh, we hear that all the time.
We were like, Great!
When we went to Detroit for the first time, there was this DJ, the Electrifying Mojo.
We went to the station, and he played Get It Up 12 times in a row.
He kept saying to the people, Whos this?
Who do you think it is?
We didnt really think anything of it.
I remember people going, Wait, is that Prince?
No, thats Princes cousin.
All the rumors started and it was crazy, but it was all because of Get It Up.
So its the pivotal song, I guess.
Every day, hed come back with a different song.
When I heard [1999], it dawned on me: Hes been checking this documentary out.
That really changed the way I looked at a lot of things, especially in songwriting.
That changed my take on what he did.
He popped it in, and I was like, What the fuck!?
Then he just jumps into our rehearsal.Like, dude, are you kidding me?
TL:A lot of times, hed do stuff that would just be over your head.
I remember we had the argument
JJ:About When Doves Cry?
TL:Yeah, When Doves Cry.
We said, You cant do a song without bass.
He said, I just did.
It needs the bass.
No, it doesnt.
We argued about it.
At least I did, because Im a bass player.
JJ:Mark [Brown] told him the same thing.
TL:Boy, did he prove us wrong.
Janet was sitting with us.
She said, Ill do my vocal.
After Mike gets done, Ill do the vocal.
So the song starts, and Michael turns into the Tasmanian Devil.
Hes snapping his fingers, clapping his hands.
Hes making all the noise, all the Michael Jackson noises.
Were sitting there like little girls.
He sings the song from start to finish.
Then, he goes back to calm Michael and asks us, How was that?
Were like, Uh, yeah, yeah, Mike.
You want me to try it again?
We go, Yeah, yeah.
As were saying that, Janet leans into us and goes, Ill do my vocal in Minneapolis.
She wanted no part of following Michael.
We said, Thanks.
He said, Whered she do it?
He said, Really?
Okay, I want to come to Minneapolis.
So he was competitive, even with his sister.
He wanted to see to it his vocal was on par with her.
He came to Minneapolis, and we ended up using maybe 10 percent of what he did there.
Hed nailed it in New York, but he showed us that competitive nature that he had.
That was the most impactful studio moment we probably ever had.
Favorite song you produced for Janet Jackson
JJ:Im going with Thats the Way Love Goes.
Theres a million songs.
I say that song simply because sometimes, in your mind, you kind of hear things.
You could dance to it or just groove and listen to it.
The way the song happened was great.
Janet didnt like it when she heard it, initially.
She thought,Eh, its okay.
It wasnt until she went on vacation with all her dancers and everybody…
This is the one.
So when she came back to town, she was like, Weve got to finish that song.
She was all excited about it.
Were like, The song you didnt like?
She said, No, no, no.
I love it, I love it, and whatever.
I love it because of the way it turned out.
1 for eight weeks.
His star is very bright.
We like that one a lot.
Fastest singer you worked with in the studio
JJ:Well, Ill say two people.
I think, as far as the quickest singer we ever had, its Patti Austin.
Bobby Brown could sing!
And he was so good!
He would nail it.
Now, getting him to the studio was another thing.
Ten minutes, hed be done.
And hed be going, Do you need anything else?
And its like, No, no.
Were good, dude.
Bobby was really good, but Patti Austin probably was the most accomplished.
When she came in, we had allotted three days for three songs [forGettin Away with Murder].
Wed do a song a day.
We sent the next song.
She finished that one.
Then we were like, Lets come back tomorrow and finish.
She worked faster than we could even write lyrics.
Not only with the lead vocal, but all the background vocals, too.
Maybe not even that long.
First take, start to finish.
She would nail it and then say, Oh, you want a harmony on that?
and do all the harmonies.
We learned why she was the secret weapon inQuincy Joness arsenal.
She did background on every one of the Quincy records.
TL:You cant leave out Michael Jackson, to me.
Hes a one- or two-take guy.
It was our idea.
A lot of child singers dont make the transition.
There has to be an album that makes the transition from boys to men, so to speak.
So it did that.
If It Isnt Love made the transition from the Bubble Gum New Edition.
It was the bridge that took them to the New Edition we know now.
Obviously, it was a successful album, and a successful tour came out of it.
I think that thats probably the body of work that encapsulates the best of New Edition.
Were on the architecture team.
Nasty was maybe the foundation of it, possibly, but Teddy made it into a thing.
He named it and marketed it, made whole albums of new jack swing.
On our albums, wed have State of the World, The Knowledge, Rhythm Nation.
They had the new jack swing flavor to them that Nasty sort of started.
As an album, I would say probablyRhythm Nation 1814has the most influence.
I mean, to me, it was just a jot down of music that we loved.
So it really combined all of the things that we loved about the music at that time.
I loved working with her.
Shes an excellent vocalist, technically, top to bottom.
We never really got to make the record we wanted to make with her.
TL:Deborah Cox would be the one that pops into my mind.
She had plenty of success.
I just think, for my money, shes an extraordinary artist.
Shes someone you want to create for.
There can only be one queen in the castle, and it was Whitneys castle.
JJ:Thats very true.
I always think of James Harden.
When he played for the Oklahoma City Thunder, initially, he was the sixth man on that team.
Then he went to the Houston Rockets and wasthe man.
Deborah is definitely a championship singer, but she was just sixth man on that team, basically.
DJ Premier is up there, too.
The way Dilla cut samples up, man …
There was just nobody like him.
We talked real quick, just met each other and said hello.
And I wanted to tell the driver, Turn around and go back to the station.
Ive got to talk to these guys.
Dilla was just so innovative in what he did.
Some people, they break the mold.
Prince was like that.
There wont be another one like him.
His influence will be still around, but there wont be another one like him.
Thats the way Dilla is to me.
She is amazing in every way.
Listen, Prince is our gold standard.
Shes the kind of artist that Prince, in his day, wouldve invited to Paisley Park.
I know Terry has another Prince-influenced artist that he would probably name.
Shes totally successful as she is, but that one rocket ship is still available, I think.
Biggest thing keeping you from doingVerzuz
JJ:Its been offered.
The right circumstances havent happened yet.
I just dont believe, necessarily, that music should be weaponized.
As artists, I think its a little different.
As a writer and a producer, I dont want to necessarily use music going against other people.
You know what Im saying?
I dont feel its fair.
This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.
