Jessica Chastain reprises Liv Ullmanns part inScenes From a Marriage.
Their approaches couldnt be more different.
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Jessica Chastain and Liv Ullmann are cheerfully arguing about monogamy.
Chastain and Ullmann cant quite seem to agree on a few key themes addressed in the series.
she says while Chastain sees it as free love, something pure and beyond moral reproach.
She comes back the next day!
I never knew you were so …, Chastain says, making a square with her hands.
When was the last time you saw each other?Jessica Chastain:Was it Toronto?
When we premieredMiss Julie.2014, maybe?
Liv Ullmann:Yes, Toronto.
And then she writes on them, on top of the pop in.
I have them all.
Theyre doing an adaptation ofScenes From a Marriage.I really wanna do this with you.
Im not attached yet, but are you available?
And I was like, Well, my year is pretty booked.
Then I heard nothing.
Because of course nobody wants to wait.
Studios and people want to just make things.
Then comes COVID.A Dolls Housegets postponed, and Im suddenly very free.
But by thentheyd already cast [Michelle Williams].
The actress who was gonna do it fell out.
c’mon, can I send you the scripts?
I read the scripts, and I loved them.
We started secret rehearsals three days later.
Secret in what sense?JC:Like we werent going to the studio.
Scenes From a Marriageis such a weighty legacy to take on.
Were you scared about that?JC:Absolutely.
Now the woman is the breadwinner.
What does that mean when she comes home?
You cant disappear who you are.
To me, its very clear that its a man looking and writing and directing this version.
Whereas with Ingmar, it was a man that always looks as a woman at whoever he works with.
Thats why we worked together so much.
I always thought he wanted me to be him.
But that wasnt it.
He wanted the woman in him to come through me.
In the original version, when they become lovers again, I was against that.
I said, I really dont like it.
Why would I have another life and meet with my ex-husband every Thursday?
I was morally upset with that.
JC:Thats so interesting!
Because I love it.
I like that its love without expectation of another person.
He doesnt need to be her husband; she doesnt need to be his wife.
It feels very pure.
LU:I suppose I havent come that far.
JC:But you lived through the 70s!
LU:Im still …
Youre a little more traditional?LU:Im traditional.
And Ive done all the wrong things, so it doesnt mean I havent done them.
But I think a commitment is a commitment.
I get hurt if I break it, and I get very hurt if he breaks it.
I wish I wouldnt be like that; I wish I wouldnt have that anger in me.
But its still there.
I know its too late for me.
Im 82 years old!
JC:Eighty-two years young, Liv.
I want to talk about the personal aspect of it, Liv.
But in one scene, Im reading from a diary and Erland is falling asleep.
I was reading what I felt about love.
I didnt say anything, but yes, it did hurt me.
JC:So you didnt know that he was going to use that until you were sitting there filming?
LU:We did it all in six weeks.
We lived in little cottages, and we met in the morning at four oclock and did our lines.
So I probably hadnt looked closely.
But when I did, I said, Oh, thats my writing.
But the series wasnt really [the story of my relationship with Ingmar].
JC:My husband watched the new series with me he needs to see it because its very intimate.
And were all friends; Oscars family is friends with my family.
But still, its an uncomfortable thing sometimes.
And afterward, he was like, I feel mostly sad for Mira.
I was like, What?!
And he goes, Yeah, I just thought she made so many mistakes.
I was like, Wow, thats a mans perspective.
I wonder if men will say, You should have been nicer to Oscar Isaac.
There are subtle little things I dont know if anyone will pick up on.
In the first episode, every time Mira tries to go for the daughter, he cuts it off.
Because Miras success is at work, he wants to be the one the daughter wants all the time.
She didnt do anything wisely, but she did what she needed to do.
This is why it works; there are so many layers.
At that time, 45 years ago,Scenes From a Marriagean incredible success.
We were here in New York when the film premiered, and a taxi driver was driving us.
He turned around and said to Erland, You are behaving horribly to your wife!
It was very alive.
Did filming this make either of you reframe your own relationships?LU:No.
We did makeup in the main house, which used to be mine.
One day, Erland and I sat in the house wagon and talked badly about her.
I said, Can you imagine, Ive been to the toilet and shes reading this horrible womens magazine!
Then I see Erland looking really strange
JC:Oh, no.
LU:Not she, he!
I got so scared.
I said, Oh, no!
People knocked and said, You have to come out!
Finally, Ingmar came and said, Liv, Liv, Im sorry.
You say yours was personal …
Ours was very personal.
But it was loving.
I cared for his new wife.
I was also married again.
We were very close, like I understand you and Oscar are.
The blessing is that, at the end, we were feeling each others thoughts.
There was no wall between us.
We joke hes my work husband.
I could tell immediately if someone said something and it bothered him.
At the beginning, we read episode four and I got emotional from reading it.
In public, you put on your persona; you dont want to be a wreck.
But I was deeply affected by the read.
Oscar looked at me and goes, You okay, Jess?
And I was like [gasps].
He could see I was in a tough place where nobody else in the room could tell.
Thats the curse part.
It makes the work better but more terrifying because sometimes you want some space.
Youre like,I dont want you to be able to read my thoughts every moment.
LU:I can disagree with that.
I love it that we can read each others thoughts.
To me, that makes the work easier.
JC:You dont ever need any space?
JC:I thrive on isolation.
Going into a cabin for a week by myself with no noise, I would be so happy.
Just to be alone and still.
But I like solitude.
LU:I like solitude, but not on the stage or in the film studio.
Thats why I go off by myself a lot.
LU:That I can understand.
I want to talk about the sex scenes in both series.
Liv, you have one.
It is more poetic and leaves more to the imagination.LU:The scene where were lovers?
Yes, in the office before they sign the divorce papers.JC:Your hair is down.
LU:No, because I dont think nakedness or anything private was shown.
I just remember thinking it was good that the sex happened.
Because hed had an affair and it was so hurtful between them before.
You have two sex scenes, Jessica, and theyre relatively graphic.
Talking about them?JC:Im fine talking about them.
That was the note.
I was like, Were not having sex.
Both Oscar and I were like, Okay, great, thanks.
She said, Maybe more up-and-down action?
See, its just embarrassing!
So the next shot, its just like [moves her body awkwardly up and down].
I know it looks sexy, but its not.
Oscar is such a good friend.
Because I was so nervous, he played music and we drank a little bit of bourbon.
Hed say, Just pretend theres nobody else here.
And theres a song I really like, so hed start singing in between the takes.
And he helped create that.
I can say this because I know Ingmar well: He was never violent.
With his mouth he could be, but never violent.
We had fun doing it.
JC:And its off-camera, right?
We knew each other, so it was so easy.
JC:For me, it was the most difficult thing to do.
We had a stuntperson on set, but honestly, it was real, what we did.
He manhandles me trying to get the keys, and I start hitting him.
But it was real.
When he [mimes someone slapping her], thats real.
We only did it once because it was shocking.
[Tears up.]
Yours was real, and you felt emotional.
Liv, yours wasnt, and you had fun.JC:And you guys laughed!
LU:But, you see, this was in the old times, and we didnt have coordinators.
Maybe if we had one …
JC:The reality is we didnt really use the stunt coordinator.
Because we were like, Its so real.
Were not violently hurting each other.
Were just slapping each other.
LU:It looked real.
JC:Have you ever had someone slap you on-camera?
I know Oscar has been hit a lot, onStar Warsand whatever.
LU:Not a real, real one.
Maybe Erland did in that fight scene.
LU:Manhandled me a bit.
And I had to cover up his blood [in the scene].
I was waiting with a handkerchief on the floor, and I helped him put the blood away.
JC:He sounded like a real gent, that guy.
LU:Oh, he was terrible.
These safeguards are in place now because of how lawless things were during Livs time.
Did you ever feel unsafe, Liv?LU:No, Ive never felt that.
Ive never had Me Too.
And if I had, it was very easy to go, What are you doing?
Have you felt safe as an actress?
JC:Yes, because Im very outspoken, and I started my career later.
I had to figure out how to turn them down without hurting their ego.
LU:I really understand what youre saying.
You had to be careful not to turn the male ego down.
JC:We dont have to worry about that anymore.
Who hit on each other first: you or Ingmar?
Who made the first advance?
JC:Was that your first kiss?
If this is too personal
LU:I think we held hands.
Saying Were painfully connected could also be a bad thing with his advantage.
But I thought it was beautiful, and I took it as a proposal.
This was towards the last days of filming.
We were both married, but neither of us moved back home.
I did see through the movie that he was looking at me a lot.
I was playing the part.
Did you have feelings for him then, too?LU:Oh, a lot.
JC:So you must have been very happy when he said that.
This is also in the filmSaraband[the unofficial sequel toScenes From a Marriage].
Erland, my husband in that movie, says, Why did you come here?
And I say, Because you called me.
I sat there for an hour, and he died a couple hours after.
Wed fly or something.
A bird was sitting on the table in front of the bed.
He said, Thats Ingmar.
I do not believe it is Ingmar, but I do believe its the energy.
JC:He told the bird to come say hi.
LU:It was so, so clear.
I always felt very connected to him.
It was not good to work with him while we were together.
We worked on two movies while we were together, and nightmares followed me on the set.
But we had wonderful work together.
And the energy is there, for those who leave us.
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