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Lil Nas Xhas a talent for creating productive controversy.
First with 2018s Old Town Road, he challenged expectations of Blackness in country music.
The song describes a romantic encounter without innuendo.
But his use of religious iconography in its video and merchandise created an immediate backlash.
The song became a lightning rod.
David:I dont think we felt any pressure.
Whered that come from?
We were really curious to see what this kids about and what direction he wanted to go in.
And thats all hes going to do.
Me and Denzel had our country sample pack ready to go.
And I remember he was like, Play me something thats super-futuristic something that is just different.
And me and Denzel looked at each other.
Were like,Maybe we should.
Then he posted on the internet a snippet of Panini.
And the whole internet reacted to this record.
That week he recorded the rest of [2019s]7EP.
That was the beginning of our relationship.
Charlie: What led to Montero (Call Me by Your Name)?
So we started doing that.
And then we met [the producer Omer Fedi] who played guitar.
In the middle of the tape, hes like, Wait, just record this separately.
And then Omer immediately records the guitar on his iPhone.
And then that ended up making it on the the song too.
But it was a very serendipitous jot down of process of ideas where it just randomly hits you.
Charlie:Did you all have any sense of the impact that this song would have?
Denzel:Nas would always be like, This is going to be a moment.
Like you guys literally do not understand.
He had so much of the entire thing planned out in his head.
David:And he let us know too.
It inspired conversations that wed never had before.
You will go to hell for that, no matter what.
He knew the conversations he started.
Within that context, musically, you all find ways to work to mash up different genres and styles.
What references are we hearing on Montero?
Denzel:The song is in Phrygian.
I think every song that weve had in the top ten, oddly, has been Phrygian mode.
It has almost a Middle Eastern or Morrish or Spanish sound.
David:I mean, Mo Bambas chord progression used to be calledthe devils tritonefor a really long time.
It was a banned progression.
The chord progression is constantly looping.
Nothing ever is really fully resolved.
It causes tension, and then kind of eases it by going back down that minor second.
And literally repeats for the entire song.
Its always pushing and pulling on your emotions.
Charlie: Were you thinking about that tonality as you were sort of imagining Satan in the video?
Are these things connected?
Its not something where were like, Oh, well, lets write something in Phrygian today.
If we want to ease tension, this is usually what that sounds like.
But it definitely wasnt like, Oh, this is something to definitely dance on the devil to.
But it was definitely something that the entire song was built on, building and releasing tension.
Charlie: Can you tell me more about the banjos role in the song?
Denzel:Usually you never hear a banjo playing in Phrygian.
All these different instruments are not really that different, people just change the way that they play them.
And how its perceived is interesting.
With Omer being from Israel and bringing in a lot of those melodies, the song is No.
You know theres other things that people are connecting to.
And then thats like the entry point for some people.
Charlie: There seems to be a lot of intentionality in the way that you think about your production.
It makes me think of this littleTwitter kerfufflethat happened a few years backbetween the producers A-Trak and Zedd.
A-Trak was saying that Mo Bamba was excellent.
We will let you know that we know how to make music.
And I understand, in that moment, the way the hip-hop genre is perceived.
At the end of the day, we love making music.
We know how to make music and were going to be making music for the rest of our lives.
Denzel:Pop is just popular,Switched on Popis just a study of popular music.
But is Drake going No.
1, 2, and 3 onBillboardany less pop than I Kissed a Girl by Katy Perry?
Our outlook on music and these genres as a whole is really just based on intention.
And thats what were always going to continue to do.
This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.
