Maya Erskine and Anna Konkle kill theirPen15counterparts innocence.
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And thats saying a lot, sincePEN15often starts from a baseline of preteen brutality.
Note: This is the part where there will be nothing but spoilers.
Do you hear this song?
he says cruelly, while Santanas Smooth plays on the radio.
Every time you hear it, I want you to think of me breaking up with you.
Because thats what I am doing now.
Even writing this out gives me a full-body shudder.
Anna Konkle:Yeah, we knew it would be the last ones.
But the characters are in seventh grade forever, and the shows just not going to go on forever.
That was always the idea.
With Anna, its protracted through her parents divorce.
:Thats exactly what we were doing.
And then there was a feeling we wanted to end it with: a coming back home.
Why would you do that to her?
I cant see that.
Now, of course, he feels differently having watched it.
But to essentially kill her innocence with that act feels really shocking.
So were rewriting history by adding sweetness, through their friendship, to get through these tough moments.
you could still come back to innocence.
you’re free to still come back home after going through something like that.
After the blowjob happens, Mayas in shock.
Was that what you were going for?
:Just the idea of,I just did something I wasnt ready for.
I really want to go home.
Im not even ready to talk about it.
Theres no words to put to it to even share with my best friend.
Anna is always there to comfort Maya through her traumatic situations.
This is the one time I felt she shouldnt be.
Shes going to talk about it in therapy or talk about it with a friend.
Thats all very intentional.
You want to say,Everythings fine and I enjoyed that.
I would take that back if I could.
He wasnt listening, orI wasnt comfortable speaking up for myself.
:When you learn about blowjobs, its all about, Oh, yeah, I got dome.
As a girl, youre hearing that constantly.
:You just want to achieve what other people have done.
Thats what I wanted.
I was embarrassed that I hadnt done something that someone else had.
Its like a badge.
:And youre good at it.
:You didnt do it wrong.
:You made him come.
:It has nothing to do with
M.E.
:It has nothing to do with my pleasure.
Oh no, no, no.
Even up through my 20s, consent was like I wasnt even thinking about my own pleasure foryears.
A.K.:No.
:It was all about, What does this person want?
Am I doing it right?
Is he still going to think Im pretty after?
Im not good at it.
I wasnt sure that Maya was into Derrick at all.
It was more like,Anna has a boyfriend.
This is his friend.
Im curious what you both have to say about that.
:I think youre right on the money about Maya not having true feelings for Derrick.
Its a person whos there, who is older, who is showing interest.
Shell take anything she can get.
I mean, thats where she wants any validation:You like me.
You like me without my glasses?
Ill do whatever you say.Which is really sad to watch.
With Steve, I feel like this is Annas first love.
That is pretty big for being 13 or 15 or 16.
What was I thinking?
At the time, at that age, Maya barely loves herself, let alone another person.
I dont know what her capability of giving generous love to another person is.
But for that age, her capacity to love, her perception of what love is?
Yes, she was in love with Sam.
At that time, that is a love, and that is a relationship.
It does have substance, just like Anna and Steve.
But if you look back years later, youd be like,No, that wasnt real.
Theres something beautiful about that,andhysterical and sad, because theres so much lacking.
:Can I tell you my favorite thing I used to do?
Every night I would pick a different boy, and I would look different.
:Thats a fucking episode.
Are you kidding me?
I never knew that.
I cant believe I never told you this, but I realized I used to do that every night.
Which is another version of
A.K.
M.E.:Right.
Maya, were these boys that you knew?
:Yes, all boys I knew.
It was a big list from my grade, older grades.
:[Laughing]Im so pissed.
:I miss those days of daydreaming.
:I didnt let myself daydream like that.
I was like,They either have to like me or they dont exist.
I dont know what that says about me.
:I love that.
:Its very protective, I think.
I wouldnt let myself fantasize.
I do have to ask about the absolutely horrible breakup of Derrick and Maya.
Did that come from anything resembling your real lives?
I hope the answer is
A.K.:Yes.
M.E.:Yes.
:My best friend growing up, Courtney, she was my Maya.
She is my Maya.
I asked her before this interview if I could talk about it.
I remember getting the call.
She told me what had happened and was hysterical, obviously.
:Its so wild.
:In retrospect, I think its hurt people experimenting with their identity and who they are.
Certainly there are things I look back on that Im not proud of.
I know most people have that.
Especially within the patriarchy: What is it to be super-male and tough?
:Its also that time.
I was like,Ah, this is reflective.
Im remembering why our time felt particularly mean.
:We talk about it like a circus.
People are going through these massive shifts and highs and falls of,Im this person.
No, Im this person.
Im trying on this identity.
Im the mean boy.
Thats specific to middle school: People would be taking these wild swings of,What is my narrative?
What do I believe?I never saw that happen in elementary school or high school.
A.K.:Yeah.
Did the guy also play Smooth, by Santana?
A.K.:Yep.
Thats the other part of it thats especially horrible.
You could not escape that song.
:[Laughs] I know.
Im laughing because its so unbelievable that it really happened.
Did you approach anything differently for this scene?
This was the most poignant, romantic moment weve seen for either Maya or Anna.
:We didnt want it to feel likeAnnas first, where its grotesque and also funny.
We wanted it to feel innocent and real, but at the same time, filmic and cinematic.
But we were like, How do you do that when youre filming with a minor?
because we still needed to shoot it separately.
Thats why I think we have a wider, faraway shot, where you cant really see it happen.
We did use a body double.
But it was just in the way that we shot it and edited it.
It felt different than showing the grotesqueness of what a first kiss can be.
But cinematically, committing to the beauty of it was more
M.E.
Just really be in the moment.
That was the hope.
:I love that.
It was one of those things of not knowing:Do we go out of character for a second?
When were talking about the future, are we our kid selves saying these things?
There were many ways we could go about it and that intimidated me in terms of getting it right.
Anytime youre encountering the last scene of anything, there are those fears or worries.
Yes, it got very emotional, and we cried through it.
We cried a lot when watching it.
:There is sort of a departure from being 13.
Theres a moment of letting in our 30-year-old perspective.
Then it drops away and you get back to the childs fantasy of what life will be like.
That was the emotional part.
Then it gets even more extreme: Therell be clouds around the houses.
It gets clearly into fantasy.
That was where it got really, really sad.
And feeling all of that coming up too: Fuck.
Its hard out here as an adult sometimes.
I was wondering about that.
:I was just like,Oh my God.
Thats something that kept coming into my head when filming it.
:I like to think they do.
I mean, I think I wanted it to be vague, like,You never know.
It could go either way, so that people could relate.
:Right, right, right.
:But I do think they stay friends.
:I hope so.
:The point is for them to be conduits of a lot of experiences.
