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WhenThe Young Popeoriginally aired in 2017, the idea of a second season seemed like a sinful pipe dream.
Yet, three years later, its time forThe New Pope.
When Lenny miraculously wakes up, some even begin to ask if hes the Messiah himself.
Paolo, at what point did you know there would be two popes?
And how did you find someone to balance out the character of Lenny?
So thats where we got to the idea of two popes.
Jude, what was it like to play Lenny again?
Theres a whole thread in the first season of Lenny refusing to acknowledge hes performing miracles.
This time, the character essentially comes back from the dead.
Hes told that its a miracle, and he says, No, I just woke up.
But you have to look at it as real.
As far as hes concerned, he went to sleep, he woke up, and thats all.
If Im a saint, why doesnt God talk to me?
Give me some hard evidence.
But then clearly, he can make some things happen.
But I really like all of these characters, so I was delighted to do it.
So much of the first season revolves around the nature of the papacy and Lenny doing whatever he wants.
But John Brannox is a very different man than Lenny.
How did you approach playing that character?
Malkovich: [Sighs] Thats a better question for Paolo, really.
Its like he has seen everything and everything is boring for him.
Except, maybe, the papacy.
In my mind, the character of John is interesting because he doesnt want to be the pope.
His real goal is to disappear, not to be the pope.
Judes character did not want to appear but strongly wanted to be the pope.
To be the pope, for the Catholics, is like being the second person after God.
Its a weight that is maybe too much to have.
So at the end, maybe both of the popes will prefer to be in another place.
How did you approach playing someone with that much authority?
Malkovich: In terms of the Catholic faith, youre Gods representative on Earth not the embodiment.
Theres a whole apparatus of the Vatican state that pulls people in various directions.
I think its very hard to imagine power, but its very easy to imagine responsibility.
And this enormous, massive world of expectations and projections and fantasies and wishes.
Power is a rather different thing, in my opinion.
But someone like my character, I dont think hes interested in power.
Its a very old, storied family who owned thousands of acres on an estate.
This is a house for Brannoxs family.
So he never really needed to do anything at all.
He took no part in managing the estate.
And then, suddenly, hes recruited to become the pope.
His relationship with power would be about the same as any person who would be put in that position.
That feels pretty different from Lennys approach to power.
Law: I think it is different.
The way I always saw it with Lenny, he was putting everything on hold.
As soon as you start projecting your own ego through the power, youre in really big trouble.
He was just trying to figure out what to do before everyone figured out what he was doing.
And the answer lay in opening his heart.
It sounds like youre describing the Church as also being in a coma.
Law: Well it was, wasnt it?
Dont forget those shots of the empty pews and the church doors with no faithful.
He scared people away because he rejected what he saw as their shallow Catholic faith.
I think he said, I dont want weekenders, I want you to bedevout.
How did that change with the post-coma version of the character?
Law: Hes already gone through that process of opening his heart.
He doesnt have a crown anymore.
And perhaps he has to face something that he was running away from during the first season.
Law: Hes almost like a bridge.
As a translation of faith.
He doesnt provide an answer or a cure.
One of the reasons I love Paolos work so much is that its amorphous.
My natural instinct is you try and nail things down.
Youre constantly trying to say, This is this, and this is this.
And I remember very early on Paolo saying, Eh, you know, maybe?
Not that youre asking for them, but I dont think well be able to give you answers.
You dont know always know whether its a fantasy or a dream, you know?
Malkovich: Its an appropriate amount of mysticism, which is critical for the Church.
Was that your experience of playing Brannox, a character who is also adrift in a sea of faith?
Malkovich: I think Brannoxs faith, because of his personal history, is very damaged.
He would like it not to be, but I think its quite damaged.
Thats why you have Catholicism.
There is an app for that.
I think thats what made Lenny a very special character.
Brannox is a different breed of cat.
One of the things I love about the show is that the Church has a very strong aesthetic.
Malkovich: Paolos writing is a very specific thing that sets you up for the world.
But the geography of the shooting lets you live in that world.
The frames and the movement, or lack thereof, make you understand that world emotionally.
The costumes are a huge factor.
Trying to make sense of the script youve got.
Theres a direct relationship.
Theater was born of it.
Performance was born of it.
There are so many moments in the first season when Lenny engages with his own persona in that way.
Hes creating this image and playing with that image.
