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As they explain,The Meaning of Hitleractually grew partly out of experiences they had while making that film.
Indeed, it has unsettling connections with much of their work.
They would have these walks, and these walks grew to be like 30,000 people.
Part of that is inThe Meaning of Hitler.
Were filming, and at one point, the crowd turns to us and theyre chanting lying press.
And this wasnt just like, Hahaha, lying press.
It was like, Lying press, were going to kill you.
- And soon after that, journalists were being beaten.
This language was directly borrowed from Nazi language from the 30s, so that was the parallel.
Yeah, this was very unsettling.
All these fascist Nazi movements all over the world are raising up again.
Then, going further east, these extreme nationalist movements growing.
I would say that Trumps success is largely from borrowing from the playbooks of what made these movements successful.
Its very global, and the film ended up being a response to that.
Its not just one thing.
Its not:Trump is Hitler.
- Its:This thing exists within us, this dangerous energy.
I think historians are cautious, because there are these rules about invoking Hitler in comparison to anything.
But they also understand history as a work in progress.
Many of these historians are very, very old.
Now is maybe the pinnacle of perceived danger.
Its not really about Hitler.
But people always wanted to talk to us about it.
Nobody said, Oh, weve talked about Hitler so many times.
We often say that education is so important in this case.
- In Germany, how has teaching about the Nazi regime changed over the years?P.E.
I grew up in the East, where all of that was taught differently than in the West.
So I would say everyone knows about what happened.
Its being taught in schools from a really early age.
But then at the same time, you have many people who think that its time to move on.
They really believe, Okay, weve done that.
Its a long time ago.
Lets just move on.
Lets not talk about it anymore.
And of course, thats very, very dangerous when this happens.
Also, a pretty large percentage of society are just anti-Semites.
I mean, there is no explanation for that.
They hate pretty much everything thats different than themselves.
But how much of this is actually happening within the population, its difficult to really see.
Thats why we have these movements.
We taught it everywhere.
Dont give this stuff any more oxygen.
We discussed this ourselves extensively, if we should do that or not.
How far and how much of that should be actually included into the film.
Weve met these people.
Weve talked to them.
All these opportunities were open.
It was like,why feed that more?But Irving was a particular interesting case.
What you see is that its actually about cruelty.
Its the cruelty in the words.
Its about re-inflicting this pain over, and over, and over again.
And thats that ugly face that you see.
Its like, Ahaha.
Its the funny Nazi, or whatever.
Previously, this was all foreign to them, and then it becomes this gospel.
:And going back to education.
If they have never heard about that before, thats their first contact with that world.
- Were there times during the making of this film that you feared for your lives?P.E.
We didnt fear for our lives, but it was very, very hostile.
I never experienced that before.
Thirty thousand people at these marches.
And they really did beat up people, just yesterday.
M.T.:Yesterday!
There were running battles throughout Berlin.
- Maybe some people still think that sounds hysterical, but these things are happening.
So when you think about the 30s in Berlin …
There were the Nazis, and the communists, and they had these battles.
This was enormously violent, day after day, night after night.
You think about it.
- These hordes of people have a violent energy about them.
I would say that Poland also felt a little bit scary.
Some Polish nationals are sort of outraged by those scenes in the film.
They say, Oh, these are patriotic demonstrations celebrating our independence.
I mean, we werethere.
There were fascist flags.
Fascists from around Europe came there and marched under these banners.
Its interesting to think about the overall journey you guys have had as filmmakers.
You made this film partly because of some of the footage you shot forKarl Marx City.
Its a disturbing homecoming, of sorts.M.T.
This 20 years has been absolutely insane.
Theres a thread from 9/11 to Iraq, to our current moment, this whole militarization of society.
Theres all of these things sort of bubbling under the surface in America that all go back to that.
Where does that start?
You endThe Meaning of Hitlerwith COVID, which I thought was an interesting choice.M.T.
:COVID at that moment, especially being in the New York area and really being touched by that …
I remember when we filmed those final scenes.
We were coming from the West Side Highway, turned onto a street.
I think I audibly gasped on camera like, Oh, my God.
This absolute abandonment of the people, and this carelessness.
I think Yehuda Bauer, the Israeli historian, says it so well.
This dark and light.
Its so fundamental how you choose.
