The rapper and producer on bringing his Def Jux solo classics to streaming for the first time.
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El-P, ourresident rap doomsayer, warned us that everything was going to shit long before it got there.
2007sIll Sleep When Youre Deadis leaner and more well rounded, though no less grim.
In 2010, El put Def Jux on what would become an indefinite hiatus.
Great albums slipped out of print.
Later this month, El will release his score for directorJosh Tranks Al Capone biopicFonzo.
(In 2015, he scored the closing credits of TranksFantastic Four.)
Hes affable and talkative, funny with a dark streak, just like his records.
A lot of artists had that reaction about streaming as a viable future of the music business.
What made you apprehensive?Well, have you bumped into an artist thats enamored of streaming?
If so, Id love to talk to them.
What am I missing?
I dont want my music to not be available to people.
Thats just a fact, so, whatever.
It seemed like a way to end the gap between people stealing and people buying things.
Streaming brought the public back to the idea of legal music fandom.
So, Im definitely not gonna be a person standing around complaining about shit.
Im just someone who, if you were to ask me, Ill tell you the truth.
Yeah, there are issues, but, so what?
There are issues with everything.
We werent on a label.
We didnt have major backing.
We didnt have money.
Its just one way of figuring out how to get into peoples heads.
But I dont think that thats a golden path or repeatable in every situation.
And then, they come back and they support you.
So I really dont have any resentment about the playing field.
That was a tough period for a lot of artists.
Just intellectually, philosophically.
Streaming-service availability is like the shelves at record stores back in the day.
If youre not represented there, you almost dont exist.Absolutely, and thats because of peoples habits.
Or, This is great.
Can you put it on Apple?
The way that they get music is simplified.
I understand that, so I want you to hear my music, period.
Well, humor me with that for a second.
Its the early 2000s.
Brooklyn is getting hype in the press as an artists mecca.
Theres a lot of upbeat music coming out, a lot of big day parties.
You, on the other hand, deliver usFantastic Damage.
What kind of a state of mind makes that music?I dont know, man.
That happened to be what I was tuned into.
Its funny, because when I did that record, it was pre-9/11.
Ive always thought of it as post-9/11.Exactly, exactly, but [I made it] in 2001.
Theres so much on there that seems as though its reactive to the current reality.
It literally was written a year before that.
I really wish that I had a different sort of wiring.
Ive never gotten the chance to be like, You know what?
Shit is pretty cool.
Hey, its time to live your life, kid.
Put a smile on.
Make something of yourself.
Its just jumping from illusion to illusion, just to protect yourself.
Do a lot of people ask you for beats?
I think that Im an artist.
Ive taken a glance into the production game, and its pretty fucking grimy.
Right now, obviously, I have initiate the Jewels to pour all that energy into.
So, thats what it is for now.
What can we expect fromRTJ4?Its just a completely relentless, savage fucking punch in the face.
Absolutely nonstop fucking rawness.
Its absolutely the noisiest, rawest record that weve done.
Thats what came out of us.
It just felt right, and it just was like, You know what?
Beyond that, Ill let everyone else tell me what they think.
Im really excited about it.
I love the energy.
Personally, I think it may be our best piece of work yet.
We knew that we felt likeRun the Jewels 3was sort of a blue record.
We pick colors to represent [our albums].
It came out in that record, and Im proud of that.
But this record is not that.
I think that people are gonna hear a difference.
At the same time, its an angry record; its kind of brutal.
Do you ever miss running a label?Oh, hell no.
Are you kidding me?
Thats like asking, Hey, do you ever miss feeling suicidal?
Do you ever miss being on the brink of self-destruction because you cant deal with stress?
No, I do not miss running a record label.
I do not regret running a record label, but I do not miss it.
Thats when things changed.
My life simplified, and the relationships that I had were really stripped down.
Its just a hell of a lot cleaner and easier.
I also didnt realize how badly I needed to just be an artist.
I woke up one day and realized that I was feeding the label because the label existed.
And when it started, the label existed because we had music.
Eventually, it just got to the point where it was like, Weve got a staff.
What do you mean we have to pay bills no matter what?
I dont have a record right now.
That punch in of vibe, that bullshit is really not what I was in it for.
There was that really uncomfortable spot where everybodys revenue was dipping, and we had blown up pretty quickly.
We got big, at least in our world, and we had a lot of overhead.
It was the same story that a lot of labels go through.
Everybody was like, Fuck, how are we gonna keep the lights on?
That just wasnt really what I was into it for.
I didnt grow up wishing that I could be a fucking record-label guy.
But … would you revive Def Jux for a Despot album?[Laughs.]
What is El-Ps favorite solo El-P joint?I think itsIll Sleep When Youre Dead.
But I really listen to that record and it connects to me still.
There are moments on that record that Im as proud of as anything Ive ever done.
I dont listen toFantastic Damageas much because its just in the rear view for me.
I respect it, and I know that at the time, it meant something to people.
It meant something to me.
But people should understand that that was hard for me, cause I literally never look back.
Im like,Whats the fucking next record?I dont care what I did before.
So, its not a normal personality trait for me to celebrate what I did in the past.
Im glad you changed your mind.
I worry that the classics that arent on the streaming services will slip out of the collective consciousness.
What happens to kids now that theres no easy access toDe La Soul?
Does that get forgotten?
Does a generation grow up without it?
Im happy to see these albums getting back out into the world.I feel the same way.
The process of what were doing is making sure its all clean, all samples cleared, everything good.
De La Soul is just a great example.
Its like, fuck, man.
I had to get over my personality and be like, Okay, fine.
Lets put it out.
I also had to get over the business of it.
So, its complicated.
But I have the same concerns.
But, unfortunately, I think that just may be the case.
There are classic hip-hop records that are just nowhere to be found.
Sometimes its crazy, where youre just like, How is it possible that this record isnt on iTunes?
Shit, I dont know.
This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.
